373 points by decryption 6 hours ago | 31 comments
seabombs 4 hours ago
There's a term I read about a long time ago, I think it was "aesthetic completeness" or something like that. It was used in the context of video games whose art direction was fully realized in the game, i.e. increases in graphics hardware or capabilities wouldn't add anything to the game in an artistic sense. The original Homeworld games were held up as examples.

Anyway, this reminded me of that. Making these pictures in anything but the tools of the time wouldn't just change them, they'd be totally different artworks. The medium is part of the artwork itself.

timoth3y 1 hour ago
The same holds true for everything from cave paintings to Roman frescos. It's part of human expression. The tools of that expression shape it.

For example, Bach's music was shaped by the fact that the harpsichord had no sustain. The piano changed that, but "upscaling" Bach's work to take advantage of this new technology would destroy them. You use the new technology to play them as they were written for the old. The beauty comes through despite the change.

dahart 25 minutes ago
Switched on Bach is one of my favorite albums of all time.
madaxe_again 18 minutes ago
Similarly, Liszt made full use of what modern, powerful pianofortes are capable of - although were he a man of our times, he’d probably have been fronting a heavy metal band.
al_borland 1 hour ago
I have to imagine that fully realizing a vision can only truly take place when the artists are not working at the limits of the present day tools. I’m thinking of something like games today that choose an art style and run with it, rather than trying to push the hardware as hard as possible.

Was this the artist’s vision, or were they simply making the best of the tools they had?

zozbot234 1 hour ago
Pixel art is very much still around today, even though it's far from "pushing" the limits of current hardware. It's pursuing a rather consistent "vision" of maximizing quality while staying within the bounds of a predefined level of detail (i.e. resolution) and color depth.
al_borland 1 hour ago
Right. This is kind of what I’m talking about. Someone choosing pixel art today is making a choice; they have a vision. 40 years ago, they were limited by the system. The choice was largely made for them.

Old video games come to mind. The box art would be drastically different than the look of the game. The box art was the vision, the game was what they ended up with after compromises due to the hardware of the day. I think it’s only been in the last decade or so that some game makers have truly been able to realize the visions they had 40 years ago.

rchaud 3 minutes ago
I think of the box art and physical manual of a video game like Diablo from 1996, compared to the game itself. The manual had several detailed drawings of monsters and otherworldly creatures with a very "evil" look, but the game itself they were represented as blocky sprites with fairly comical movement, as characters moved on a isometric chessboard-style grid, with abrupt turns and limited speed. Ultimately the gameplay is what mattered, the box art, in-game music and sound effects all created an atmosphere that wouldn't have been as immersive with just graphics.

A point of comparison would be to the game Quake, which came out the same year, and whose graphics felt light years ahead . But Quake mostly became a multiplayer hit, as the single-player story and overall atmosphere weren't very compelling.

xgkickt 42 minutes ago
Vib Ribbon is one example I can think of that also exhibits that property.
lukan 3 hours ago
Hm, are you sure that there is not some nostalgia at play here?

To me they look horribly pixelated and at least some would improve aesthetically a lot for me with a higher resolution.

zozbot234 3 hours ago
Even today these pictures have an almost perfect resolution for showing on a compact e-paper display. The viewing area on the original Mac models was not that much bigger, either. They only look "horribly pixelated" when artificially upscaled for a modern big screen.

(A pixel-art specific upscaling filter would mitigate that issue, of course.)

lukan 2 hours ago
I was viewing them via a small mobile screen, not high DPI, not fullscreen. And to me, they simply don't look good the way they are.

But if you folks enjoy them, go for it. Otherwise taste is subjective I think.

reconnecting 2 hours ago
It's amazing what people achieved with the resources of the '80s, creating fairly enjoyable visuals using extremely limited technology.

Another example from the early '90s is MARS.COM (1) by Tim Clarke (1993). Just 6 kilobytes and 30+ fps on a 12MHZ 286 (2).

1. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_zSjpIyMt0k

2. https://github.com/matrix-toolbox/MARS.COM/blob/main/MARS.AS...

lukan 12 minutes ago
It is definitely amazing what they pioneered and achieved with the given limits.

But that doesn't mean I would enjoy a pixelated image now more than a high resolution image of the same motive.

2 hours ago
fwipsy 1 hour ago
Of course there's a subjective element, but I was born about a decade after these were created and I find them to be beautiful. I love the mural with the tree, it's amazing how it creates a sense of openness that wants me to go outside, even with such a limited palette.
1 hour ago
anthk 36 minutes ago
You have no idea on how charming these games look.
lukan 16 minutes ago
Or I do, because I played them?

But that was my not well received point about nostalgia ..

gxd 5 hours ago
Awesome! You can also find great art made with Deluxe Paint for the Amiga. The limitations from early computers in resolution and, most importantly, palette, create unique art styles:

https://amiga.lychesis.net/applications/DeluxePaint.html

keyringlight 5 hours ago
There was an article posted here not too long about with a similar sentiment about the NEC PC-98

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44076501

dan-robertson 3 hours ago
These seem worse IMO. Not sure if it’s the medium (eg more saturated colours, the particular website) or if I just like the compositions less.
zozbot234 3 hours ago
They have more color but way less resolution, thus less detail. Pretty much what you would expect to see, given that the original Mac and Amiga came out around the same time.
vardump 34 minutes ago
Weird there were no hires images. Amiga's horizontal hires resolution was >720 pixels.

Of course, in order to get square pixels, you needed to enable interlace as well.

jameshart 1 hour ago
Both Motorola 68000 machines, typically 512K-1024K of RAM. So similar underlying constraints, under which they made very different choices for how to prioritize graphics.
andrepd 3 hours ago
Loved this dive on one such Deluxe Paint piece: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4EFkspO5p4
ekianjo 3 hours ago
pwillia7 4 hours ago
[flagged]
spankibalt 3 hours ago
"Press button for YOUR instant demoscene imitat". Sad.
necrosyne 4 hours ago
Please do! This would be amazing
HPsquared 3 hours ago
Similarly, some cave paintings still look awesome.

https://www.bradshawfoundation.com/lascaux/

poisonborz 4 hours ago
I envy that small world, where people could be this genuinely enthusiastic about their computer products and companies, where most actors seeked the best interest of other parties.
cjcenizal 1 hour ago
I was born in ‘83 and a good chunk of my formative years were spent imagining the world through dithered pixels — playing games, creating art, writing, and exploring. Seeing these images evokes a rush of nostalgia, simply because they’re dithered.
rswail 1 hour ago
"Design is about constraints" - Charles Eames

The constraints of the original Mac and MacPaint have resulted in an art form specific to the time and place.

Dante690 3 hours ago
Really interesting. I’m wondering if there’s any LLM or image model on Hugging Face that has been trained specifically on low-res black-and-white images like MacPaint. Has anyone come across something similar or seen a fine-tuned model in this specific retro visual style?
sgt 2 hours ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. I'd like to see this, too. Just for fun.
amelius 1 hour ago
I think it is downvoted because it would potentially harm the creative value of the original works.
marhee 13 minutes ago
If you enjoy this art-style, definitely check out the game Return to the Obra Dinn.
taylorius 3 hours ago
The lack of photorealistic fidelity gives your brain a bit of room to use imagination to fill in the blanks in your internal model. This fosters a certain type of engagement with the content that you don't get with photorealistic images.
ekunazanu 37 minutes ago
For me, there's a certain aesthetic to 1-bit bayer-dithered images, as well as images with visibly big coloured-halftone-dots, that makes it feel both retro and modern at the same time. I want to call it neo-retro, but I feel like that term already exists.
aidos 5 hours ago
Love it.

At the end of the article they mention digging in to the Amiga scene. If you want to feel old, Deluxe Paint turns 40 this year. My mates had Amigas (I had an Amstrad) and the computing world just felt full of wonder and promise. It was a magical time of creation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deluxe_Paint

xgkickt 23 minutes ago
As one of the images states: “Happy Computing to all, And may all your computing be a Delight!”.
kjellsbells 2 hours ago
The street scene is by Gerald Vaughn Clement, the inventor of MacGrid, a drawing program that used a sort of plastic grid to perform high detail drawing and digitization.

https://macintoshgarden.org/apps/macgrid

Incidentially /r/VintagePixelArt often has discussions about this sort of thing.

vman81 1 hour ago
Reminds me of the youtube video where Ahoy recreates one of the classic 4 Byte images from the 80's 4-Byte Burger https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i4EFkspO5p4
reconnecting 5 hours ago
Then we should probably mention

http://macpaint.org

(From page HTML source) <!-- ******** HELLO OLD COMPUTER USERS ******** --> <!-- This site is designed to be viewable at 640x480 resolution or higher in any color mode in Netscape/IE 3 or any better browser, so if you're using an LC III or something, you're welcome. In fact, I really hope you are using such a machine, because limiting the site to this level of simplicity wouldn't be worth it unless someone is. Please let me know if you are using an old computer to visit the site so I know it is worth it to someone to maintain this compatibility. I do apologize for the one javascript error that you may get on each page load, but I don't expect it to cause any crashes. The major exception to all of this is Netscape 4. That thing sucks. -->

Does anyone even remember why Netscape 4 was bad?

spydum 3 hours ago
Browsers were changing quickly back then, but if anybody remembers, it became Netscape Communicator and tried to expand to do everything..

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Netscape_Navigator#:~:text=Thi...

reconnecting 2 hours ago
If I'm not mistaken Netscape Communicator was just a pack of different applications, including NN. The real issue seems to be was specific CSS and some style rendering.
numtel 4 hours ago
I think it was a total rewrite, similar to why Winamp 2 was great, fast, not bloated but Winamp 3 was slow, adding extraneous features nobody wanted.
reconnecting 2 hours ago
True, Winamp 2 was much solid. Unless I'm mistaken Winamp 3 introduce skins and after absolute madness starts.
jfim 3 hours ago
NN4 tended to crash more than NN3, it may have been due to the rushed development during the browser wars.
reconnecting 2 hours ago
There was problem with styles and tables.

https://sbpoley.home.xs4all.nl/webmatters/netscape4.html

Mizza 5 hours ago
That first one looks like a parody of 'View of the World from 9th Avenue' but I don't know what Acius was!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/View_of_the_World_from_9th_Ave...

decryption 5 hours ago
I wish I knew what Acius was or is too!
B1FF_PSUVM 4 hours ago
From a search for "acius mac": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/4th_Dimension_(software)

Software outfit founded by a French guy, as hinted by the drawing with Paris visible ...

(Those "view from ..." were plentiful at the time)

zozbot234 5 hours ago
Thanks for finding this! A relic from a more civilized age.
layer8 1 hour ago
These really need to be viewed with a CRT renderer IMO, as well as the Amiga art mentioned in this thread. The hard square pixels on the website aren’t quite representative of what these looked like on a contemporary monitor.
leoc 47 minutes ago
Up to a point, but the early Macintosh displays were quite crisp and clinical—certainly compared to something like a consumer NTSC or PAL CRT TV—as befitted a platform which was very focussed on WYSIWYG paper-document editing.
card_zero 1 minute ago
Some of them (such as the street scene) wouldn't fit on the monitor and presumably were intended to be printed for viewing.
k2xl 8 minutes ago
I asked ChatGPT to research who some of these artists were and what they are doing now.

https://chatgpt.com/share/687276a3-bd74-8005-be01-e9ad375e3d...

"Laurence Gartel, Bert Monroy, and James Leftwich helped pioneer digital art in the 1980s and continue to be active in creative fields today. Gartel, a digital art trailblazer, now serves as a brand ambassador for AI painting firm Robohood, exhibits globally, and is producing a multi-volume encyclopedia and documentary on his work. Monroy, known for hyper-realistic digital paintings, was inducted into the Photoshop Hall of Fame and continues to teach and create through platforms like Lynda.com and “Pixel Playground.” Leftwich, who created intricate MacPaint works like “M-Aura,” now works as a user-experience designer in California and is active in the visual poetry and asemic writing community. All three artists exemplify how early digital tools sparked long, innovative careers."

JSR_FDED 2 hours ago
This dithering is somehow so pleasing. It’s like “sand dithering”.
empressplay 15 minutes ago
cubefox 16 minutes ago
That street scene is some of the best pixel art I have ever seen.

https://blog.decryption.net.au/images/macpaint/lesson3d.png

promiseofbeans 4 hours ago
The 2nd artwork ('A Door Somewhere " - Bert Monrov) had me really confused for a moment. When I scrolled down to it, there was a sort of flickering effect, like as if it were a gif, with a flickering light adding ambience to the scene.

But no, it's just how that sort of black & white shading looks when you scroll past it - amazing effect!

SSLy 3 hours ago
As the neighbour mentions, it's only a case of your display having ghosting. This effect is not present on eg. OLED screens.
donkeybeer 3 hours ago
What monitor do you have?
perihelions 5 hours ago
I think the .png images on this website are larger than the uncompressed originals (1-bit depth, 1 bit per pixel).
decryption 5 hours ago
Yep, I upscaled them by 400% so they’re easier to view on modern displays.
perihelions 4 hours ago
I know; I mean to say they're larger file sizes—the PNG compression ratio is effectively less than one.

Take the first one, "acius.png", at 84,326 bytes. If you losslessly scale back to the original size (1/4th) and convert to 1-bit NetPBM, it's 51,851 bytes, without compression. I thought that was remarkable.

encom 3 hours ago
The PNG files seem to be very poorly compressed.

  $ oxipng -o max --strip all -avZ --fast acius.png
  Processing: acius.png
      2304x2880 pixels, PNG format
      8-bit Indexed (2 colors), non-interlaced
      IDAT size = 84251 bytes
      File size = 84326 bytes
  Transformed image to 1-bit Indexed (2 colors), non-interlaced
  Trying filter None with zopfli, zi = 15
  Found better result:
      zopfli, zi = 15, f = None
      IDAT size = 24466 bytes (59785 bytes decrease)
      file size = 24541 bytes (59785 bytes = 70.90% decrease)
  24541 bytes (70.90% smaller): acius.png
Hilift 3 hours ago
The review at the time was if you weren't a particularly good artist, MacPaint wouldn't change that.
lowwave 3 hours ago
Crazy to see 4D in there, is it actually a 4D poster with the big 4 in there?
nntwozz 4 hours ago
The loading time for this artwork has a quality all of its own.
fifticon 4 hours ago
so does roman mosaics :-)
anthk 4 hours ago
RayBarfing 5 hours ago
rembrandt paintings from the 17th century still look great today
spankibalt 3 hours ago
Yeah. Seems that art might be... timeless.
Max-q 1 hour ago
The Amiga is quite another beast, especially showing photos in HAM mode, giving 4096 colors.
drewcoo 1 hour ago
Meh. It was nothing compared with PLATO systems at the university. And the CAD setups dad and his engineering team used for work then (Silicon Graphics?) also looked much better.

So maybe for some values of "great." Maybe.